Senator Lugar Press Conference

U.S. Ambassador's Residence, Kyiv, Ukraine
January 16, 2008

Ambassador Taylor: Ladies and Gentlemen, I am honored to have you here. I'm also honored to have Senator Lugar here. I think it is fair to say that there is no parliamentarian in the world who is a greater friend to Ukraine than Senator Lugar. Senator Lugar has been here many times over the past sixteen years. He knows this country very well. He knows the strengths and he knows the challenges. So we're very pleased to have him here. Sir, you may want to have a brief statement, and then …

Senator Lugar: Thank you very much Ambassador for hosting us this morning. This is by far the most lively meeting we've ever had in this room. I appreciate your coming. We've had already good visits with the President and Prime Minister and members of the opposition, and this morning members of the business community both in energy and in general commerce. I'm grateful for all of these people, but I'm especially excited to see you and I'd like to respond to your questions.

Q: Senator Lugar, do you think that Ukraine is in a good position to join the MAP at the NATO summit in NATO of this year, and do you think that there is anything that could prevent Ukraine from achieving this aim. On the other hand, do you think you can name a date when Ukraine could possibly join NATO?

Sen. Lugar: We were informed yesterday in our meeting with President Yushchenko that a letter had been signed by him, by the Prime Minister, by the Speaker that requests consideration by NATO at the Bucharest Summit which will be held, presumably in April of this year, for a Membership Action Plan (MAP). That at least is going to be the request. Each emphasized in his or her own way that this is the beginning of a debate of the people of Ukraine as to the desirability of membership in NATO.

I want to emphasize that the Membership Action Plan is perceived in Ukraine as the beginning of a nationwide conversation, which may finally result in the months or years in a referendum of the people in which the people of this country will decide yes or no as to whether Ukraine should seek full membership given the fact that other nations will have to make a judgment about the quality of the debate, I presume, as well as the preparation of Ukraine for that membership.

I know of no one that has a very good estimate as to what date membership might be offered, even following this debate in country, a referendum, but I would indicate as I have to others who have questioned me, in the event that the people of Ukraine vote and wish to be members, I would be supportive. In due course, our president, whoever is our president at that time, will make a decision on the part of our administration.

Q: I'd like to ask you about Ambassador Taylor's favorite subject. You said that you've had meetings with the business community here since you've been here and with the government. The business community, of course, continues to be extremely concerned about a quarter of a billion dollars of their money stuck in a VAT refund channel that doesn't seem to be able to get out. Can you offer any hope to the business community on that issue now?

Sen. Lugar: I raised the question with businessmen who were present for our breakfast about taxation policies and administration, likewise the rulings of the courts and the judicial system that may pertain to the situation. They described some successes on occasion in working out disputes with the government or with other economic competitors, but they also described very arduous procedures of recover and very great difficulties with regard to lawsuits and the workings of the courts. Giving full credit to the Ambassador for his concern, I share that concern, and one reason for having the conversation today was to become better informed so that perhaps both of us can be better advocates of justice.

Q: When meeting the Ukrainian government and opposition, did they ask you for your advice, or did you discuss with them, issues of importance to Ukraine, such as, for example, personnel issues for the Ukrainian Government. Who should head this or that agency, for example the security service of Ukraine?

Sen Lugar: We did not visit on specific appointments on this occasion, nor was my advice asked for, nor were candidates volunteered. We dealt, in fact, with more general subjects.

Q: Senator Lugar, what advantages will Ukraine gain in joining the MAP, and what challenges will it face, in the context especially of Russia being opposed to this move.

Sen. Lugar: The leadership of Ukraine has come to a decision that they want to seek a Membership Action Plan, realizing that this initiates a large debate in country, the resolution of which might be some months and maybe years down the trail. I've indicated that I believe our United States' position will be based upon the will of this people as expressed, probably, in a forthcoming referendum. But we acknowledge the import of your question that other countries may also want to enter into international debate; they may have comments also about the debate proceeding internally in Ukraine. For the moment, I will just say that other countries will speak for themselves, but ultimately Ukraine will come to an internal decision, and at that point then, obviously, the members of NATO will have to be counted in terms of support.

Q: What about the benefits and challenges of this step?

A: The United States has found NATO membership to be extremely important in terms of international peace, and I stress international, and not just Euro-Atlantic, but the leadership of democracies and those who value human rights throughout the world. Therefore, I have a bias toward the organization and the inclination to feel that others would gain benefits from the organization. But I come back to the responsibility of the citizens in this country, free people, to make up their own minds, to have this viable debate and to determine what they believe to be in the best interest of Ukraine.

Q: My first question is how does he (inaudible) energetic security system in Europe. My second question is: This is not your first visit to Ukraine. What is your impression, is it possible to say about democratic changes in Ukraine?

Sen. Lugar: The energy lines that lead through Ukraine to other nations make Ukraine a vital player in the security of many European nations, quite apart from security obtained for this country. In foreign policy terms, it's important that other nations link up in pipelines that are going to convey oil and natural gas through the pipelines underneath Ukraine for energy security in this country as well as those served by Ukraine in Europe. One of the objectives of my visit, not only to Ukraine, but to other nations on this occasion, has been to encourage a flow that is likely to bring more friendly ties with Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan perhaps, Kazakhstan, others with Ukraine, so that all of this can be better fulfilled.

Meanwhile my advice to Ukraine would be to work with the international community, with outside investors on some occasions, to obtain more oil and natural gas than is here in Ukraine now. Supplies, that have not been developed, that are hard to find at this point.

The second part of your question: I believe the political developments in democracy in Ukraine are very positive. I'm encouraged by each visit, and especially by this one. I think the developments are obvious to international observers as well as to friends of the country. As you have observed, a democracy can sometimes be tedious and difficult, lots of pushback, lots of delays, lots of different opinions, all sorts of discussion, some rational, some less so, but nevertheless the freedom manifested in this is very very exciting to witness.

Q: Can you describe your assessment of Ukraine's chances to get a Membership Action Plan, especially in light of Russia's opposition to this and the energy dependence of many of the alliance's members on Russian energy supplies?

Sen. Lugar: I'm not going to speculate this morning on the attitudes initially of various nations as they learn of the letter, what has been written by the leaders of Ukraine. Your point is well taken, however, that some members of NATO may assess their own security situations in relationship to Russia or others, may be taking a look at Ukraine's Membership Action Plan, or even the suggestion of it, as a destabilizing or disturbing aspect for the moment.

This is why in response to a previous question I stressed the fact that an extended debate and conversation may occur in Ukraine, and it may occur in other countries as they visit with each other, as they visit with the United States, visit with Ukraine…think through, really, what are the potential strengths and drawbacks for a country of the size and importance of Ukraine ultimately having a Membership Action Plan, and then ultimately on that contemplating membership in NATO.

Let me comment that I came to Europe in 1993 as a Senator on the Foreign Relations Committee encouraging expansion of NATO membership. I would say frankly that although many were excited by that idea, the Partnership for Peace resulted in 1993, and new members really did not come until 1996, and the next tranche, as I recall three or four years later. So this is not the first time that there has been full extended discussion among the countries of Europe quite apart from those who are contemplating membership or a Membership Action Plan.

Q: Do you regard holding a referendum on such an important issue as joining NATO a good thing? (inaudible)

Sen. Lugar: I do not necessarily commend a referendum to the people of Ukraine, I would simply say that idea has been mentioned to me, prominently, by many citizens as we have discussed this issue. I take your point that referendums are used for many purposes, and perhaps there may be some other way that citizens of Ukraine will want to indicate their sentiments and their majority views. A referendum is one logical method of doing this and may finally be the most acceptable.

Q: Senator, as one of the sponsors of lifting the Jackson-Vanik agreement with regard to Ukraine, you are very familiar with the economic potential of both Ukraine and Russia, and in view of the chances of Ukraine to join the WTO in February of this year, do you think those chances are realistic, and do you think that some kind of development could make Russia jump ahead of Ukraine in this process?

Sen. Lugar: I think you for mentioning Jackson-Vanik. After my visit here in 2005, and my visits during the election period of 2004, I thought it was very important for the Congress of the United States to express our enthusiasm for the development of the economy of Ukraine. One of the highlights of my Senate debate was the leadership of that debate and the favorable vote to end Jackson-Vanik for Ukraine. Subsequently I've been deeply equally about economic developments in this country, which I believe merit strong consideration for WTO membership in this year, and that is a course that I support.

Q: Senator Lugar, while visiting Astana and Ashgabat, did you discuss transiting Caspian energy resources bypassing Russia, and if yes then what particular meetings were you able to achieve in this respect?

Sen. Lugar: I did discuss bypassing Russia and Iran, and moving literally the products along the Baku-Jehan-Tblisi pipeline for one alternative, and or other suggestions that have come from those countries that might lead to a diversification of their shipments. I suggested it would be stronger for them to have a diversified portfolio of exports. Now I am not empowered as a United States Senator to reach agreements or negotiate with countries, but we did discuss various proposals that have come from international companies that would like to work with Astana and with those in Turkmenistan and for that matter with those in Azerbaijan who have been very receptive to international organizations. I am hopeful some of those agreements might be consummated in this calendar year.

Q: Senator, again as to your business meetings with the business community. OPEC has not been available in Ukraine now for some time because of a relatively small fee of some 17 million dollars. Over a year ago, Prime Minister Yanukovich and the (inaudible) promised to solve this problem. OPEC, on the back channel, if you can solve this little problem, we could open up credit lines guaranteed that might come to as much as half a billion dollars. Have you had discussions on this subject while you've been here? Have you seen any progress, any hope of progress?

Sen. Lugar: I'm encouraged by our distinguished Ambassador that we are close to a potential solution. It's an important problem. I appreciate your highlighting it, because I will continue to visit in Washington on our return on that specific issue.

Amb. Taylor: Senator, I want to thank you very much for this. Thank you. Very good questions. I hope that we will continue these kind of conversations. This is a great opportunity. Again, no better friend in any parliament around the world than Senator Lugar, so thank you very much.